Regency Era Witch Mary Bateman

Vulgar History Podcast

Regency Era Witch Mary Bateman 

April 1, 2026

Ann: Hello, and welcome to Vulgar History, a feminist women’s history comedy podcast. My name is Ann Foster. In this series, we’ve been talking about the Regency era, which, if you know about the Regency era, you might think about Jane Austen or people going to fancy balls, or King George III, you know, Bridgerton, things like that. Those are the vibes of the Regency era. And I hope this series you’ve learned that, actually, it was full of dirtbags, everybody was addicted to opium, and everyone owes a massive gambling debt. And also, what were the everyday poor people doing? 

Today, we’re going to talk about one of those everyday poor people, the Yorkshire witch, Mary Bateman. I have a special guest… It’s Allison Epstein. 

Allison: Hello! 

Ann: Allison, welcome. So, for people who maybe just joined the show, this series, Regency Era, they might not know what it portends when you’re a guest. [Allison chuckles] Can you explain who you are and what it means to have you here?

Allison: Yes, I am. I am a frequent guest in the Vulgar History pantheon, and I show up like a terrible harbinger whenever anybody is going to do something absolutely ridiculous, because Ann brings me on for a nonsense dirtbag story when I get to loudly react to something I know nothing about, but will be excited about. Ann pitched me this one with exactly one fact about this person, and I cancelled all of my plans for today to record this episode. [laughs]

Ann: You’ve sent me, a few times, a picture of your schedule, being like “One of these things is not like the other.” We won’t say what the thing is, [Allison laughs] because the thing that you know comes towards the end of the story, which is delightful. So, we’re going to build up. 

Allison: Okay, wonderful. That’s called a tease, listeners. [laughs]

Ann: So, just wait and see what it was that got Allison, a very busy person, to set aside hours of her life to talk about this. 

Allison: And when we say hours, Ann and I know that we always say we’ll record for, like, 45 minutes to an hour, and we know better than that now. So, I have blocked the entire afternoon. We’ll see how long this ends up being. 

Ann: As well, you should. So, the first thing that I wanted to just bring up, because I came across this story from a listener – don’t know who it was, don’t have a record of that – but back when I was starting, I think when I was just starting doing the Regency Era, I posted on my Instagram stories, I was like, “What stories do you hope to hear?” And people were sharing things. I’m like, “Okay, good, good. These are ones I’m working on.” And then, someone was like, “Mary Bateman,” and I’m like, “Who’s that?” And then I looked it up, and I was just like, “A witch?” Was there witches in Regency times? Wasn’t that more like James I era? Like, didn’t kill them all? I just feel like Regency era witch is not a thing that I— What about you? When I said, “Regency era witch,” were you like, “Was there that, then?”  

Allison: Yeah, I had sort of assumed that, like, witches were pre-1700, and then again, after like, 2014.

Ann: Mm-hm. Tumblr. 

Allison: It seems to me, there’s 300 years in the middle there where we didn’t really have as many witches. I know, like, there have been witches all along, but I haven’t encountered any. 

Ann: No, exactly. So, I was like “Regency era witch. Okay.” And so, as I do and, you know, shout out to Wikipedia, who often, they’re going to have a page. It might be short, but you’re going to have those subheadings, and the subheadings of this were just like— I’m sorry, one of them was the thing I told you about. [Allison laughs] Listeners, that’s a tease. But this is one where I’m like, “Oh, I’ve got to get into this.” And thank god there is a book that is called The Yorkshire Witch, The Life and Trial of Mary Bateman by Summer Strevens. So, Wikipedia, got some facts from there, but The Yorkshire Witch, this book, like she really and she in the introduction, Summer Strevens, I assume is a woman, I don’t know, they, said they were researching some sort of other thing just about just kind of, you know, dirtbaggy crime stories from the Yorkshire region and came across this, and they’re like, “Got to write a book about this.” So like, thank you. Thank you, Summer Strevens, for putting this all together. 

Allison: I love a historical figure who, every time anyone learns about them, they’re like, “I have to stop what I was doing. I’m so sorry. What? Who are you?” Those are my people. That’s when I show up for these. 

Ann: No, that’s it. And just getting into the facts, you know, I’m always looking for an opportunity. There’s various guests who I like to bring on, and they always have a certain calling and a certain reason why they come on, but I was just like, at first, I’m like, “I think this might be an Allison story,” and the more I learned, I’m just like, “This is an Allison story. I can’t do this without Allison.” 

So, we’re in northern northern England, is where this all takes place, largely around Leeds and other small towns around Leeds. So, you can picture everybody with that cute sort of Brontë sister type accent. 

Allison: I was going to say, are we near the graveyard water situation here? 

Ann: I think graveyard water could be the reason behind some people’s bananas decisions in this saga. But there was one part in this story, you know, I’m trying to keep to a nice narrative, but there’s a side character who did live near where the Brontës would later live, and in this book, Summer Strevens was like, “The Brontës hadn’t actually moved in there yet.” So, I was like, okay, so there’s not actually any crossover. There’s not actual Brontës in this. 

Allison: Just Brontë energy, wandering along the moors on her own, sort of having her time. 

Ann: Well, Emily Brontë, like, was there ever not an Emily Brontë? 

So, the era we’re looking at here, let me just drink my tea. We started recording late because I had a tea emergency, but sorted. 

Allison: That was the message I got, listeners, was just “Tea emergency,” and I didn’t ask questions, and I don’t want to know. 

Ann: There is tea in the story. So, 1768 is when our girl is born, Mary. Her name at birth was Mary Harker. Isn’t that the name from Dracula? 

Allison: It sure is. 

Ann: Yeah. So, she was born Mary Harker. And new listeners, you may not know, but I like to say the names of small towns on this podcast because I’ve learned that every time I say one, somebody from that small town or whose parents live in that small town messages me to be like, “Oh my god, I can’t believe you said this name on the podcast!” So, I like to shout out a small town because someone out there is going to be like, “What? Asenby? That’s where my grandmother’s from!” 

Allison: Asenby hive, rise up. 

Ann: So anyway, the north riding of Yorkshire. The nearest big town is Thirsk, but they’re living in, like, a small farming community nearby. Her dad was called Benjamin, he was a farmer, the wife is called Ann. She had several siblings, one of whom we’ll see later, a brother. 

And actually, I will say, most of what we know about her is from a book that was written about her after her death. Was this book exaggerated? Maybe. But at the same time, I think this is, for people to know, Allison has a subset called “Dirtbags Through the Ages,” and I subscribe to a similar thing as you, or it’s just like, if this is information we have and it’s, like, shocking and audacious, we take it as fact because what other facts are there? 

Allison: Yes. The motto of “Dirtbags Through the Ages” is if there is a ridiculous, absolutely insane explanation for something, that’s the one I’m going to pick. I don’t care if there’s a more normal explanation; I’m not interested in that one. That one’s not for me. 

Ann: Exactly. And so, this book and I can’t tell you the title of the book, it’s one of these, like, Regency era, extremely long book titles. 

Allison: The saga of a witch in the Yorkshire Moors, who someday… yeah. 

Ann: Yeah. So, I can’t tell you the title of this pamphlet book that was published in 1811. But it went into 12 printings, people loved to read it, and I’ll tell you the title at the end. But anyway, this is where we get a lot of our information from. But Summer Strevens, biographer, looked up court records and stuff, so she’s throwing in some other facts. 

But what I will say about young Mary, she was destined for a life of crime. Some people just are. And in her case, it’s in a way that I find charming. I don’t know. This is going to be, like, a true crime adjacent episode of this podcast because she, like… Anyway, we’ll get into it. You can tell me… I was trying to think, I like to give you a little task while we’re doing this, you know, like, keeping track of things. 

Allison: [chuckles] How many of Napoleon’s relatives are in this episode, for instance? Yes, those are my tasks.

Ann: How many cousins of Catalina de Erauso? 

Allison: How many Basque cousins arrive to kill somebody? [laughs] 

Ann: I will say for this one, let me know if or when she loses you, because I’m on her side from minute one. Summer Stevens, not. Summer Strevens is just like, [grumbles]. I’m just like, you know what? What else are you going to do? 

Allison: From everything you know about me as a sympathetic listener, I don’t think that’s going to be an issue. 

Ann: Oh, let me know if it happens. 

Allison: But I will. 

Ann: You know, this is like, times are not good in northern England for farmer folk in the late 18th century, because like, the Industrial Revolution is kind of peeking its way in, and it’s kind of taking away people’s jobs. Crops have been bad, like, this is still, we’re getting into the period of the year with no sun and all those… You know, people are starving, there’s no bread. 

Allison: This is the little ice age, everybody’s in France, and they have no crops and all of that stuff. Yeah. 

Ann: There’s wild things happening in the weather. Like, things are not good for the poor. So, if somebody decides to start a life of crime, I’m like, “Yeah, what’s the other option, like, die of starvation?” Do your life of crime. What are your options? Not really anything else. 

Allison: Nodding. Nodding enthusiastically. 

Ann: So, she starts age five. 

Allison: Oh! Okay. [laughs] 

Ann: And this is where it’s kind of like, you know, she will do a life of crime as an adult, but as a child, it’s kind of like, there might be some sort of… What’s that called? Kleptomania? Is that the thing where you just, like, uncontrollably steal things? 

Allison: Yes. 

Ann: Yeah. I think there might be a bit of that going on here as well, because age five. She also just likes chaos, and so do I. So, age five, she stole a pair of leather shoes. From who? I’m not sure. And hid them in her father’s barn for months until she pretended to have found them. And people figured out pretty quickly, like, “Mary, you stole these. [Allison laughs] What are you up to?” So, she’s just having a nice time. 

The nearest town fair is in Topley, which is the nearest place where a fair happens. Truly, I don’t know anything about this geography, but shout out to Topley. It was one of these fairs that has been, like, you know, trading your livestock and whatever, and it’s been going on since the medieval times. Like, every year, there was a fair. And the people who come in to fairs are the Romani people, and what they’re doing – because what other jobs do they have? – is like, fortune telling and stuff like that. 

So, presumably, young Mary Harker sees these people doing these things and is like, “I could do that.” That seemed like, “Okay, I get this. I see what the grift is here, and that inspires me.” So, again, I don’t think the timing is such that she would have gone to the fair at the same time that someone like, oh, what’s her name? Sarah Biffin, no hands. I don’t think that they were at the same time. But it’s that sort of fair where it’s just like, “Look, there’s people with limb differences, and Siamese twins.” They wouldn’t call them that, but you know. It’s just like, “And here’s a pig that was born, and it’s in a jar now because it had two faces.” Like, it’s just kind of like, “Here’s some stuff.” 

Allison: Sure, like the proto-P.T. Barnum thing, except they were still outside, and they hadn’t built a building for this yet. 

Ann: Yeah, yeah. So, as a young kid, you know, an enterprising young criminal, she’s just like lots of opportunities going on here, and she’s drinking it. Presumably, some of the stuff she does later on, it’s like, she must have seen someone do this, and this is probably where she saw people do these things. So, somehow and for some reason, she learned how to read and write, which is just unusual for this time and place for the daughter of an agricultural family. 

Allison: Really? Good for her. 

Ann: Yeah, she does. And you’ll see why we know that later. Anyway, she got into trouble so much for stealing as a child that by the time she was 12, her parents sent her into service because they thought maybe that would mend her ways. So, at age 12, she’s sent off to Thirsk to be like, you know, the lowest of the low, scullery maid type person, where it’s like, you think this is going to help?

Allison: Yeah, put her into a really nice, rich house where all the nice things are and see how she does. They’ll help. 

Ann: Allison, you’re guessing things that are going to happen later. [both laugh] 

Anyway, so some of the things that you would have done in that house were, like, cleaning and stuff, but probably also doing some sewing, like mending, because later we’ll learn she’s very good at sewing. She was, guess what? Dismissed from various jobs in Thirsk due to theft, [laughs] to the point— And this is where, like, when you leave a job, as people will know from the most recent series of Bridgerton, and also, you might know for other reasons, but you leave and you want to have a reference, like from your person who hired you before so you can go to another house, be like, “Hi, I was the lady’s maid at such and such, and here’s my good reference.” No one’s writing her those letters.

Allison: “I definitely was not fired for stealing from this house. So, you don’t have to worry about that.” 

Ann: Yeah. So, what she does eventually is changes cities because… [laughs] 

Allison: Her craft is great for that, isn’t it? 

Ann: Yeah. So just, like, move to another town. She moved to York at around age 20, so that means that she was kind of bouncing from job to job for, like, eight years or so. And then, she’s just, like, no one else will hire her, so she’s like, “Okay, go to a new city and start over.” So, she goes to York, and guess what? She was dismissed again for stealing things. So, she’s stealing things, but she’s not, at this point, keeping them. She’s stealing things and then pawning them; this is her go-to. We’re going to see a couple of go-to moves, and she finds different ways to do them in different settings. But like, stealing stuff and then pawning it and then keeping the money is a thing she does a lot, and she gets really good at. Good for her. 

So anyway, she’s just burnt out of York, so she moves to Leeds. This is kind of going to, like, bigger city, bigger city, bigger city. And Leeds is the bustling metropolis; this is the biggest city she’s been in, which is probably good for someone like her, because you could go from, like, one neighbourhood to another neighbourhood and nobody would know each other, because the city is so big, sort of thing. Anyway, at this point, a friend of her mother’s got her a job at a mantua maker’s shop. Friend of the mother, like, okay. 

Allison: I’m trying to figure out what a mantua is. 

Ann: A mantua, yes, I can tell you it’s sort of like an overdress you put on top of your dress. So, it’s just sort of a sewing job. 

Allison: I was picturing a manta ray, like, for some reason, and I was hoping to be like a big cape, like a manta ray shape. 

Ann: It is sort of like a dress you put on top of your dress. I was picturing some sort of, like, Spanish headdress. But anyway, so she gets this job doing sewing; she’s got this good sewing skill, which will come in handy later, and she remained there uncharacteristically for more than three years, which means they didn’t notice her stealing. She wasn’t doing stealing? That’s not likely. But actually, part of why maybe she wasn’t stealing as much is because she started her side hustle. She is a millennial of her time, can’t just have one job. Everyone’s so poor, she’s just like, “I’ve got to find different things to do.” She started telling fortunes and making love potions.

Allison: Yes! Double side hustle. 

Ann: So, this is where she becomes the Yorkshire witch. 

Allison: I love this. Is she doing this, like, out of the mantua shop where she works? Like, “Come in after seven, that’s when I start making my love potions.” Delightful. 

Ann: [laughs] Maybe. There is a thing that happened, this is like 20 years ago, but where I’m from in Canada… Do you know what Timbits are, at Tim Hortons? They’re, like, little donut holes. 

Allison: Of course, I know what Timbits are. I’m from the Canada of America. [laughs] 

Ann: [laughs] Well, listeners might not know. So, they’re little donut holes, and you can buy, like, 12 or 24. But there was a grift, again, I respect, this is like 20 years ago, at one of the Tim Hortons where I lived. And what the thing was (this is before the legalization of cannabis in Canada), and so people would go to the drive-through at this Tim Hortons when this person was working, and they would ask for 13 Timbits, and if you ask for 13 Timbits, they would give you weed. 

Allison: Yes! Yes, I love that. That is the most Canadian grift I’ve ever heard in my life! [laughs] 

Ann: So, I’m picturing like… Well, eventually, it got suspicious because someone was like, “Why do people keep asking for 13 Timbits?” If one person does that, okay, but like, why would you? That’s not one of our, like, value price deals. 

Allison: Right. Right, right. That’s not a thing that we actually offer here. So, I feel like if you go to the mantua makers, you’re like, “I’m looking for the 13 mantuas.” 

Allison: “I would like to buy a mantra in red silk, if you know what I mean.” Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. And she’s like, “Perfect. Come back at 7:00.” 

Ann: Triple task. Exactly. 

Allison: Double task! [laughs] 

Ann: I don’t know. So, she’s just telling fortunes and making love potions is what she starts off doing. 

At this point, I’m going to just backtrack. Like, what’s up with witches? Because this is the early 1800s. What’s up with witches? No, this is even, like, the late 1700s. So, there’s two other major witches in Yorkshire at this time. 

Allison: Amazing!

Ann: Yeah. So, we’ve got Old Nan, who relied on her pet guinea pig to tell fortunes. 

Allison: [gasps] Oh, my god! This is the first I ever… I don’t know how he would do it. Is it like the octopus that predicts the World Cup winners? Like, she just puts them in between two carrots, is like…

Ann: Yeah, and see which one he goes to? That’s what I was picturing. 

Allison: If the guinea pig goes to the carrot on the left, you’re going to meet a tall, dark stranger. If it goes to the one on the right… Yes. Love. 

Ann: So, Old Nan was using her pet guinea pig as well as tarot cards to tell fortunes. And then, there was Hannah Green, AKA the Ling Bob Witch, who lived, I guess, at a place called Ling Bob. Bog. Bog, not Bob. 

Allison: Oh, it’s a bog witch? 

Ann: She’s a bog witch. 

Allison: Yes! Excellent. 

Ann: These are the two witches. So, she read tea leaves, which tea, just, you know, really, really kicking off in this time and place in England; people are all about tea. So, this is a new art, divining from tea leaves. And so, the two of them, they both serve, like, a more wealthy clientele, and where Mary Bateman – who is still Mary Harker, but she gets married soon – where she sees an opening is like, “Who’s going to tell fortunes to the poor? That will be me. This will be my lane. I’m going to be a witch serving the poor and downtrodden.” 

Allison: The people’s witch! 

Ann: Yes! So, she’s providing services to, like, servant girls and poor people. So, witchcraft in England at this time was a felony. 

Allison: [laughs] Still? 

Ann: It was. But okay, as opposed to in Scotland and elsewhere in Europe, it was seen as, like, devil-worshipping, anti-Christian awfulness. 

Allison: Okay. I guess I’ll take a felony. 

Ann: It’s kind of like jaywalking, being a witch. It’s just kind of like, “Okay, I’ll pay the fine.” Like, it’s not… [Allison laughs] Anyway. So, she’s just like, “Yeah, I’m going to be the third witch of Yorkshire.” She’s the one who becomes known as The Yorkshire Witch, not Old Nan. 

Allison: Old Nan and her guinea pig are just steaming their cabbage in their cabin. 

Ann: [laughs] So, she’s age 24, she marries a man named John Bateman, who was a wheelwright. Don’t know what that is, but he was like, an upstanding guy. That’s all I know. 

Allison: He made wheels. He righted wheels, for like, carriages and stuff like that. 

Ann: So, they had a three-week courtship, and then got married, and he stayed by her throughout all of what I’m about to tell you. So, was he in on it? Was he just… didn’t care? I don’t know. But he didn’t get in her way. 

Allison: This is a successful season of Love is Blind. It sounds like about that timeline, so I’m here for it. 

Ann: Yeah, three weeks. So, now she’s Mary Bateman, the name that she will become very famous for. At this point also, again, it’s like, oh, this is kind of like now, people couldn’t afford to buy places to live, so you’re just renting rooms from places. You’d rent a room, and then you’d rent a room in your room. Like, people are just… This is the economy of what’s going on. 

Allison: Sure. The Airbnb of the Regency. 

Ann: Exactly. So, they get married. They rented rooms. She would steal things from other lodgers in the same place. She would often, one of her go-tos is just, like, when she’s caught, she’s like, “Ah, you got me,” and then she gives the stuff back, and they’re like, “Okay, we won’t charge you for it then.” [Allison giggles] So, she would just like, give it back. 

Allison: She’s just so charming. They’re like, “Oh, I guess it’s fine, Mary.” 

Ann: Later, they took in lodgers of their own; I presume the thing where, like, they’re renting a room, and then they rent a room within the room. Anyway, she, of course, would steal from them also, but she was careful to never steal more than 40 shillings because stealing 40 shillings or more is a capital offence. Less than that, it’s like, you know, a night in jail. I don’t know. 

Allison: I mean, 40 shillings, I think, was a lot of money back then. 

Ann: I do not know what the conversion is. 

Allison: My exchange rate is not good, but I think that’s several thousands of dollars. 

Ann: But she’s diversifying like bananas. So, she’s got her fortune telling, she’s got her love potions, she’s got her stealing from her, like, roommates. These are things she’s doing. And then, she also starts a new thing, which is she would go to, like, I don’t know, a petticoat maker, and she’d be like, “Hey, I’m here on behalf of Mrs. Clarkson, this really rich person, and she wants to see three of your petticoats. Can I just take them, show them to her, and she’ll decide which one to keep? And then I’ll bring the other ones back.” They’re like, “Oh, yes, Mrs. Clarkson for sure.” And then she, like, keeps the petticoats. 

Allison: Absolutely. Yes. This is like the lower stakes version of the Affair of the Necklace, which is like, “Yes, I will give that to Marie Antoinette. Don’t you worry about it.” 

Ann: Yeah. And then when she’s caught out for it— Well, also, she’s in Leeds; bustling metropolis of Leeds. It’s just like, no one knows who she is, so they can’t track her down. And then, she sells them at the pawn shop, like, she’s not walking around wearing the petticoats. People don’t know it was her. She even grifts her husband. 

Allison: I love her. 

Ann: This is the thing, me too. So, she’s doing all these things, like, she’s stealing stuff, she has to give it back, but maybe sometimes she stole some stuff, and then she’d already pawned it, so she couldn’t give it back, so she has to repay people in different ways. So, here’s how she did that in one occasion. John, her husband, long suffering, John Bateman, his father lives in, I think, Thirsk, one of the nearby towns. His father is the town crier; a top-tier job. 

Allison: [gasps] I can’t believe that was still a job at this time. Fantastic. 

Ann: I love a town crier. So, she rushes to his workplace at the wheelwright shop, and she’s like, “Oh, my gosh!” And she has this letter, and the letter says like, “Oh, my god, your father, the town crier of Thirsk, is ill. You need to go and be with him.” And John was like, “Oh, my god, okay. I will.” And so, he rushed off to Thirsk. And while he was away, Mary sold all of their possessions, [Allison laughs] using the money to pay off the people she had stolen from. 

Allison: Comes back and was like, “Hey, my dad was fine, and now our house is empty. There’s nothing here but wheels.” [laughs] 

Ann: “Don’t know what happened, John. Don’t know what happened.”  

Allison: And the town crier in Thirsk is like, “Hear ye, hear ye! My son just got conned by his wife.” 

Ann: Well, this is part of where we know that she could read and write because she forged this letter. 

Allison: That’s true. 

Ann: So, one other time, John, you think would be like… Who’s from I Love Lucy, like, “Luuuucy! You’ve got some explaining to do…” 

Allison: [laughs] This is actually good because I’m picturing her husband as Jason Bateman, and I’m just like, that’s the person who would be in this situation. I don’t know what I expected. 

Ann: At one time, John went off to visit friends. When he came back, wouldn’t surprise you to know, Mary had sold all of his clothes and possessions. 

Allison: He’s got to stop leaving. 

Ann: [laughs] Just don’t leave. She could just do that when he was at work. Anyway. But this is where I’m just like, what’s his deal? What’s going on with John? Like, they had at least three children together, he never left her. I don’t know. I feel like he might have been into it. I don’t know. 

Allison: It does seem like, first time you sell all of my clothes and possessions, shame on you. But second time, it’s a love language? I don’t know. 

Ann: I should have seen that coming. She’s also an incredibly charismatic person, as we’ll see. So, he couldn’t stay mad at her. 

About four years into their marriage, we’re in 1796, a serious fire broke out on the outskirts of Leeds, ten people died. I think it was, like, a factory or something. It was one of these tragedies. And Mary was like, “Oh, no, a tragedy? I’ll just go in there and do some relief work. [singsong] Doo-doo-doo!” And so, she went around collecting linens from sympathetic people. She’s like, “Oh, my god, all these people lost their homes. They need more linens. Really good quality linens. [Allison laughs] Do you have any really good quality linens I can give the people that need them?” And then she went on them for money, obviously. And then, she also stepped it up by then posing as a nurse. She realized she could get even more linens, and she was like, “Oh, the doctors need linens for bandages for people. Really fine linens. High thread count. Can I have any linens? Thank you!” 

Allison: You think she had a little, like, nurse costume as part of this? Because I have to imagine this was a full outfit situation. 

Ann: I have to imagine, I have to imagine. Yes. 

Shortly after this, and this is where we’re just like, “What are you up to, John?” So, he decided to join the supplementary militia. So no, this is like, 1790s, late 1790s, there’s like French Revolution era war-type things happening. I don’t think Napoleon’s on the scene, but it’s getting to the Napoleon era. So, Britain needs soldiers, and so there’s this thing where if you just sign up for the Supplementary Militia, you can go off and do that. Summer Strevens, biographer, suggests that John might have been like, “We need to get out of here.” 

Allison: “We’re going to get arrested for so many linen-based crimes that like we can’t…” [laughs] 

Ann: “We need to go.” So, he joined the militia. She accompanied him on the march. We don’t know what she was up to for those three years, but I can imagine she was just, like, knitting. She was learning some new skills, presumably. 

Allison: I assume every soldier in the Supplementary Militia woke up one morning like, “Where are the fuck are my shoes?” 

Ann: ”Where is everything I own?” 

Allison: “My entire tent is empty.” 

Ann: “And her tent is full.” So, she was with him for three years, and after three years, they returned to Leeds. So, maybe the concept was just like, “Let’s just make everyone forget about us,” and then come back and be like, “Oh, we’re totally new in a town. Not those people that were here before during the fire situation.” 

But this is where she totally doubles down into being what I like to call a witchtepreneur, which is like La Voisin and other witches we’ve talked about, who’s like a witch, but a business witch. Like, “Here’s my shop. Here are the things you can procure from me. Like, I’m a business witch,” sort of thing. So, she was selling trinkets and love potions, offering healing services. I feel like her healing services, is this fake nursing? Or I feel like it might be more like Reiki, just kind of like, “Ooooh, the vibes.” 

Allison: “I’m going to cleanse your aura.” It was probably a lot like, “Hi, here’s a handful of grass. And if you eat this, in three weeks, you’re going to feel better. Come back, do some work, and I’ll give you more grass for another 20 pounds.” 

Ann: Oh, that is very much what she’s up to. Not with grass, though. She’s offering some predictions of the future as well. So, kind of everything she’s been doing, she’s just adding more. And I feel like she’s a sort of witchterpreneur, if someone comes to her witch shop and like, “Oh, do you offer predictions for the future?” She’s like, [mischievously] “Yes.” 

Allison: “Absolutely. I do.” 

Ann: “Do you have this?” “I doooo.” So, any time someone asks for something, she would just be like, “That is the thing I do. Mm-hm. Yes, it is.” So, she became an expert in what is called screwing down. Have you ever heard of this? 

Allison: No. [laughs] You could say anything after that, and I would be like, “Yeah, okay. I guess that’s what that is.” 

Ann: Yeah. So, what screwing down means is that if somebody has it out for you, she would send a curse to that person. [Allison gasps] She would like, screw down that person to help you. 

Allison: Revenge! Revenge witch. Oh, my god. Proactive revenge witch! I could make a million dollars doing this. I’m so sorry, Ann, I have to go start a website [Ann laughs] for my screwing down business where I hex my enemies’ enemies. Augh! That’s delightful. 

Ann: I’ve got some I’ve got several examples of how she did this. I’ll give you examples. I like me explaining it isn’t as good as telling you exactly what she did. She was just like, “I’m Mary Bateman, I can’t do the screwing down myself, but I have this friend, Mrs. Moore, and she tells me what to do. And then, if you need to get screwing down done, she’ll tell me what to do. So, you have to pay her and also me.” 

Allison: Aha! Yes. Beautiful. Double grift. I love that she called her Mrs. Moore! Like, Mrs. Also Pay Me One More Time Please. [Ann laughs] Mrs. Very Expensive. 

Ann: Mm-hmm. Oh, and then also, like I was saying, people come to the door like, “Oh, do you do this also?” She also started being an abortionist at this time. 

Allison: I feel like that’s a thing you shouldn’t start doing, like, without training. But I guess it was the 1790s. 

Ann: I think it connects with the healing stuff. I think her abortion services were kind of like giving herbs, sort of thing, not doing a physical task. 

Allison: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She’d sell that next to the love potions. I guess that makes sense. 

Ann: Yeah. It’s like, “Here’s the love potion and then here’s the abortion potion.” So, she’s an abortionist and here’s an example. Businessman Barzillai Stead. 

Allison: This fake ass man. [laughs] Fantastic.

Ann: But this is a real guy, Barzillai Stead. So, he didn’t come to her, being like, “Oh my gosh, I’m in so much debt. My creditors are moving in.” She approached him and was like, “Hey, do you have creditors moving in? You don’t think you do? I think you do. [Allison laughs] So, here’s what I’m going to do. Screw them down for you.” 

Allison: She JG Wentworthed that man! That’s incredible. I love it. 

Ann: So, this is how her screwing down services seem to mostly work. She finds an impressionable, gullible person, and then convinces them that someone else is out to get them, and then they’ll pay her to screw down the other person. It’s not like people come to her in need; it’s like she’s finding people and then just telling them, “Oh, guess what? Your husband wants to kill you. So, do you want me to make that not happen? Okay.” So, that’s the approach.

Allison: It’s a legendary grift. I love that so much. 

Ann: Well, and then when something doesn’t happen, it’s like, “Wow, my husband didn’t kill me!” 

Allison: Exactly. 

Ann: “That was me.” 

Allison: “It’s because it worked!” [laughs]

Ann: “I made that not happen. Mm-hmm.” There’s so many fantastic examples of this. So, Barzillai Stead. She’s like, “Oh, my gosh, your creditors are closing in. So, what you need to do is join the army and skip town.” And at this point, again, because of the Napoleonic Wars and stuff, Britain was desperate for people to join the army. Like now in some countries, like yours, they will pay you to join the army because no one wants to do it. So, he joined the army, and she convinced him to give the enlistment fee to her. [Allison chuckles] Simultaneously, his wife, Barzillai Stead’s wife, she was working on her as well. She’d say, like, “Did you know your husband, Barzilay Stead, has a secret mistress who he’s planning to run off with? You need so you need me to screw down the mistress.” This, like, non-existent mistress. 

Allison: I love her. 

Ann: She’s like, “Here’s what Mrs. Moore says we need to do. To screw down this love rival, what you need to do is you need to give me all this money and also two lumps of coal and then place the two lumps of coal on the rival’s doorstep.” This is where I just like, I love the narrative of this. She’s like, “because then the love rival will be like, ‘Oh my God, coal, amazing!’ She’ll burn the coal because she’s a poor person. But then this coal is magical coal. It’ll make her fall asleep, and it will cause so much smoke in her house that her clothes are going to all get dirty, and with no clean clothes to wear, she won’t run off with your husband.” 

Allison: Oh, my god! This is so unnecessarily elaborate. Like, this… You know, “If you give a mouse a cookie, then eventually your husband won’t run off with his mistress and join the militia.” Like, you didn’t have to do that much, Mary, but I’m so glad you did. 

Ann: There’s one later thing where she has… I’ll tell you now, just because it’s a similar sort of thing. So, she has another, later, fake witch who she works with called Mrs. Blythe. And she had to explain why Mrs. Blythe said she’d be in this one city, but then she wasn’t. It was this thing about, like, Mrs. Blythe, like, “Oh, she wished she could have been there, but when she was driving her carriage past this town, she was so frightened by seeing a hot air balloon in the sky [Allison bursts into laughter] that it spooked the horse, and then the horse wrapped around, and then it flipped and now her leg is broken.” 

Allison: [still laughing] That’s going to be me next time I’m late to work. “How come you couldn’t get here on time?” “Well, I was on the train, and I was going to work, but there was a hot air balloon, and I got so scared that the whole train derailed.” 

Ann: So, I love an elaborate narrative. But this is also where, like, I know from various murder mystery shows, the more complicated you make your story, the more guilty and lying you look, right?

Allison: Yes. Yeah. You know what this reminds me of? The part in the Flight to Varennes, where they were coming up with those elaborate backstories for Marie Antoinette and her children. She’s like, “Yes, I am the mysterious Russian noblewoman.” [Ann laughs] She didn’t need to do any of that. 

Ann: No, exactly, exactly. “My daughter, [phonetic] Aloui Bidoua…” 

Allison: She could have just been like, “and this child.” It’s fine. 

Ann: Yeah. So, this is the thing with Mary Bateman: she’s having a nice time. She’s enjoying… 

Allison: She’s having so much fun, and she’s making so much money, it sounds like. 

Allison: And like you said with her husband, it’s like, you know, fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. It’s like, the people who she’s going after, not that they deserve to have this done to them, but just like, come on! Come on. [Allison laughs] It’s like she keeps asking for more and more things. 

Allison: Right. And they think they’re getting… They think she’s following through on the promise. She’s like, “Well, I wasn’t killed by my husband, so I guess I’m happy with the service I received.” 

Ann: Yeah. The double negative service that she’s doing. So, it’s kind of like, okay! 

Allison: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The victimless crime. 

Ann: Exactly, exactly. If she was going after, like, the Jeanne de la Motte, where it’s like, well, you’re just going after like the wealthiest, shittiest people, so fine. But this is like, she’s going after poor people who don’t have any money, so you’re like, “Mmm?” But at the same time, it’s like, “Euhh.” 

Allison: But you’re doing it in such a fun way that, like, if I was going to get grifted, that’s how I’d want to get grifted. 

Ann: It’s, like, respect, you know? 

Yeah, the love rival, this all worked. So, Barzillai, he left to join the army, and Mary just kept going after the wife, Mrs. Barzillai Stead. This is the thing we see with her as well, where she just finds a victim, and it’s just like at some point, you think the victim would be like, “Fuck you. Goodbye.” But people are so into it. Like, she must have been so convincing. But it’s the sunk cost fallacy. Is that what it’s called? We’re like, you’ve already put so much into this thing, if you give up now, then that retroactively means you were dumb before. So, you just, like, dig in even more. So, she just keeps going after the same people. She proceeded to con Mrs. Barzillai Stead out of all of the things in her house. 

Allison: [laughs] Okay, I do have to keep reminding myself that these are poor people in the Regency era. There’s probably, like, eight things total in their house. 

Ann: Yeah, one chair.

Allison: But that is a hilarious con every time is “I’ll take all of this, please. I will, The Grinch Who Stole Christmas-you, please.” 

Ann: Yeah. Well, and in this case, how she’s doing it is she’s just like, “Oh, Mrs. Moore thinks there’s someone else. Like, do you want to keep your husband safe in the military? I think the other soldiers might kill him unless you give me money for Mrs. Moore, and then we’ll screw down the enemy soldiers.” Like, so she’s just pawning her stuff to give her stuff. 

Anyway, eventually, Mrs. Barzillai Stead, you know, going through it, attempts suicide by throwing herself in the river. 

Allison: Oh no! 

Ann: And the Leeds Benevolent Society intervened, and I’m just happy that such a thing exists. The Leeds Benevolent Society. 

Allison: The Leeds Benevolent Society is like, “Well, we have to form because people keep losing all of the things in their home and their linens. So, we’ve got to do something.” 

Ann: [laughs] So, they gave her money to help her out. But then Mary managed to extort this money from her. [both giggle] Because she’s like, “What I think we need to do is to screw down the Leeds Benevolent Society. [laughs] I think they’re after you, too!” 

Allison: [laughs] “They want your linens, girl.” 

Ann: “I don’t have any linens!” She’s also said, “Oh my gosh, just got a letter from Mrs. Moore. She says that your father-in-law is going to murder you, so we need to screw him down.” So many people are out after this woman. And then she told Mrs. Barzillai Stead— They have an eight-year-old daughter, and she’s like, “Your eight-year-old daughter, when she turns 14, is going to become pregnant and she’s going to either kill herself or murder her seduce her. To protect her, Mrs. Moore will provide you with this silver bracelet. So, you need to give me the money to buy the silver bracelet.” The bracelet was, of course, actually pewter. Eventually… So, I think, let me see… It’s kind of like how she couldn’t get the jobs as a maid because she kept stealing from people. The opposite is with the witch stuff, because people are like, “She’s so good at screwing down. Look at me, not murdered.” So, they kept recommending her. 

Allison: “I’ve been saved from so many imaginary murders. You should go talk to this woman. She, too, will make you not get murdered.” 

Ann: So, a friend of the Steads came to Mary for help. She was pregnant, and she’d been abandoned. So, this is not the daughter; that daughter’s got her bracelet, she’s fine. Mary provided her with charms to bring the baby daddy back, but it didn’t work. And then she’s like, “Oh, well, you know what? I can also do abortions!” 

Allison: “Surprise!” Yeah, I wonder if that was the first time she tried to do a grift where she was making something actually happen instead of making something not happen. Like, “Oh, this is actually much harder than I thought it was.” 

Ann: And so, another example, the case of Mrs. Cooper. Mary convinced her that Mrs. Cooper’s husband was going to sell all of their belongings to pawn them, so to prevent this, what Mrs. Cooper should do is bring all of her belongings to Mary for safekeeping. 

Allison: Another classic, all of your belongings scam. [laughs] 

Ann: Yeah. If you’re going to call something like the Mary Bateman, I think it’s the Grinch. It’s the, like… 

Allison: You’re like, “And there’s one crumb, too small for a mouse. Mary Bateman-ed.” [laughs] 

Ann: This is her move! And it keeps working, so why would she stop doing it? 

Okay, so then we get into the next era of her life, which… you’ll see what happens. So, Quakers are in Leeds. I love a Quaker. I love a Quaker story, Public Universal Friend being a notable… 

Allison: I was going to say, this is getting close to Public Universal Friend time, isn’t it? Maybe that was a little earlier. 

Ann: But the Quakers, they’re in town and, you know, they’re nice people; they’re progressive, they’re abolitionists. They’re cool, they’re chill. We like the Quakers. And so, there’s these two Quaker sisters. They’re unmarried women, their last name is Kitchin, so they’re called the Mrs. Kitchin. 

Allison: I bet you they would have been good friends with Mr. and Mrs. Sauce.

Ann: [laughs] Mm-hmm. They could go into business together. Kitchin Sauce. [Allison giggles] What they ran is a small drapery shop with their mother. I presume that means like draperies, like curtains. “Linens?” Mary Bateman suddenly shows up. 

Allison: “Linens? [both chuckle] You rang?” She’s just sitting outside of a Bed, Bath & Beyond, so ready. 

Ann: Pounce. So, Mary Bateman, at this point, I think Mrs. Moore is kind of done, and now she’s got Mrs. Blythe, who is her new person. 

Allison: Imaginary friend.

Ann: I don’t know. Maybe honestly, why would there not be—? I feel like it would be both. It’s like “I need to consult with Mrs. Moore and Mrs. Blythe. So, you have to pay three of us for this screwing down service. Thank you so much.” Anyway, she saw that they were gullible people, and so she became their confidant. She did some work with them in their shop on a casual basis. Remember, she’s good at seamstress things, she is good at that sort of thing, and I would presume, at that time, she’s like, “Can I just look around your house and see how many possessions there are?”

Allison: [laughs] “Will this be a two-trip situation?” 

Ann: “Would they fit in my cart?” Yeah. So, anyway, I know one of the Kitchin sisters fell ill in 1803, and Mary took over nursing, putting on her nurse costume from that other girl. And she’s like, “Oh, my gosh, you’re sick. You know what you can do? Pay me and Mrs. Blythe. Mrs. Blythe will send along some medicines; I will personally prepare and administer these medicines for you.” Can you guess where this is headed? 

Allison: I’m very afraid this Quaker woman is going to die of leaf poisoning or whatever. 

Ann: Okay, so what I need to tell you about arsenic is that it was readily available. 

Allison: [laughs] Okay. Ohhhh, girl. 

Ann: It is a readily available, unregulated, tasteless, odourless powder that anyone could buy for rat poison. In future decades, [chuckles] when people realize how many people were— Somebody called it inheritance powder. People were just like, “Hell, yeah! Arsenic! Let’s go.” It would later be regulated. At this point, it’s not. Arsenic: unregulated, tasteless, odourless, cheap, easy to get. So, Mary Bateman is preparing these concoctions for the sick Miss Kitchin and their mom, Ma Kitchin, came to town, “Oh my gosh, my daughter is ill.”

Allison: Ha! Ma Kitchin! 

Ann: Well, that’s what I like to think she was called. She came to town, but within days of her arrival, she also was ill, the other daughter became ill. Eventually, all three of them died from the same symptoms, which are the symptoms of arsenic poisoning, which I won’t get into, but are pretty unpleasant, and also become pretty recognizable. Spoiler.

Allison: Did they happen to, in their will, leave all of their belongings in their house to the woman who sold them medicine? 

Ann: It’s even more convoluted than that. To avoid any investigation into these deaths, Mary spread rumours that they had all died of the plague, and there had been plague, there had been typhus, there had been so many outbreaks of so many things in Leeds in recent history. So, everyone was just  like, “Oh, my God, plague!” So, they just boarded up the house and the shop, so nobody went in or out. But by the time the, you know, estate agents came to be like, “Okay, well, let’s just assess what’s left in this house… Nothing?? There’s nothing in this house or business? Where’s the linens?” 

Allison: “All of their drapery! It’s gone!” 

Ann: “Isn’t that strange?” Yeah. Everything was devoid of goods. They’re still in Leeds, which, again, I just need to emphasize, I recently was on a trip to England, and I learned a thing that sort of makes sense, but I just had never been told this outright. But like, in this time period, everybody lived walking distance from their house, and you never really went anywhere else if you’re a poor person. You just go home, you go work. There’s not trains, there’s not buses… How and why would you ever go anywhere else? So, you’re just in your neighbourhood. So, in Leeds, you just go to this neighbourhood, grift everybody, and if you go to another neighbourhood, it’s very rare that someone would go from one neighbourhood to another. It might as well be a different city. So, they moved to a different part of Leeds, her and her husband and her children. They moved to a place called Black Dog Yard, which I like. 

Allison: Fabulous. 

Ann: That would be a good name for, I don’t know if it’s, like, a pub or a band, Black Dog Yard. 

Allison: It’s like a craft brewery and, like, a lakeside town. 

Ann: Okay, and this is leading into the way that I lured you into recording this episode, because it’s time for her most audacious con yet: The Prophet Hen of Leeds. 

Allison: Now you all see why I cleared my afternoon, because all I was told was “The Prophet Hen of Leeds,” and I said, “Yes, great!” There is a four-hour block on my Outlook calendar that just says, “Fortune-telling chicken???” So, go on.

Ann: Let’s go. So, 1806. For a little backstory, we’ve talked about how the weather is terrible, the crops are bad, industrialization is happening, like she just exploited, there’s all these weird diseases happening. For the poor and working-class people, life is not so different in, like, 1806 as it would have been in 1406. Like, things are shitty, everything’s confusing, everyone’s poor, life is terrible, and all these weird weather things are happening. So, it’s kind of like, “Oh, is it the end times coming?” And there’s a real spiritual movement – I know you’re into this sort of thing in your… 

Allison: I do love a spiritual movement. 

Ann: Have you heard of the prophetess, Joanna Southcott? I had not.

Allison: Give me the time period. Is it like, around this time? 

Ann: 1806, yes. 

Allison: No, then I have not. 

Ann: Okay, so Joanna Southcott was a prophetess. She was very popular in this time and place. Actually, I don’t know if either of us is prepared to talk about this, but the Book of Revelations is a part of the Bible [Allison laughs] that is unhinged. 

Allison: I have read it many years ago. It is much wilder than I was led to believe. 

Ann: Yeah, it’s kind of a list of things that will happen, and then, you know, like, Jesus will return to Earth, and the world will stop. 

Allison: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The last judgement. 

Ann: But it’s like, are these literal things that will happen? Or are these metaphors? And it’s all kind of weird, like the horses… 

Allison: Or was this just John the Prophet on some absolutely wild mushrooms coming up with whatever he was seeing? Which is how it was taught to me. But yeah, there’s a lot going on in that book. 

Ann: It’s a list of, sort of like, things to look out for. It’s like, “The Antichrist will show up,” and like… 

Allison: “If you see a big, sexy woman followed by a giant whale, things are getting bad out there.” 

Ann: Yeah. So, everyone, like Joanna Southcott and her followers, are really into the Book of Revelations because they’re like, “All this weird stuff is happening!” There were all these plagues, all this weird weather stuff, the little ice age. They’re like, “This must be the end times. Okay, let’s prepare for it,” which is one of those times where it’s like, it feels like nowadays, but it feels like so many times where it’s just like, everything in the world is so big and so scary. It’s like, you feel no control over what’s happening? But if someone tells you, like, “No, here’s what’s happening…” 

Allison: It’s why people are pulled into cults, because you want an explanation, and you want somebody to be in charge. Yeah. I would be so susceptible to a cult, I know this. 

Ann: Yeah. That’s why we keep you away from cults. 

Allison: Yes, because I want someone else to be in charge, to tell me what to do. It’s really very straightforward. 

Ann: Exactly. So, Joanna Southcott, she says the return of Jesus is imminent. Her devotees are called the Southcottians; there is over 100,000 of them. She wrote and dictated prophecies in rhyme, [Allison giggles] which is a charming touch, she identified herself as “the Woman Spoken of” in the Book of Revelation, who would give birth to the new Messiah, despite her being at this point, 64 years old. [Allison laughs] 

So, Southcottians. She gave her followers special tokens. There’s something, I don’t know what this is, I know it’s in like a couple different religions, Christian religions, where something about, like, only 144,000 people are going to get into heaven, like, that’s the number. People listening to this will know this a lot better than I do, but I’m like, “Well, I did religious studies class in high school and here’s what I vaguely remember.” But it’s like, there’s only 144,000 people are going to get into heaven, and so you live your life in a way to demonstrate to everyone that you were one of those 144,000 in some religions. But what Joanna Southcott did is she gave her followers special tokens being like, “You are one of those 144,000.” [chuckles]

Allison: [laughs] Like a fast pass at Disney World. “You definitely get to go in! You get to cut the line. You’re fine.” 

Ann: So, Mary Bateman had gotten one of these tokens. 

Allison: Definitely. If I had to pick 144,000 people in all of human history to go to heaven, I’m like, “Yes, this is the one.” 

Ann: You know what? I would. She’d make it interesting. So, she had one of those, she had kind of like the bona fides of being like, “I’m a Southcottian. I’m one of the 144,000. I’m a spiritual leader, you might have heard of me, The Yorkshire Witch, but I’m Christian now.” So, she, like many people, had hens in her house for egg reasons, for food reasons. And so, her fortune-telling business was waning due to having grifted everybody, and nobody having any possessions anymore. 

Allison: They’ve run out of people to screw down at this point. Yeah. 

Ann: So, this is where she’s just like, “I’m going to I’m going to do this Southcottian-adjacent thing. I’m going to become a spiritualist,” which again, it’s like, there’s the podcast Scam Goddess, which is a great podcast, people should listen to it, hosted by Laci Mosley. You see people who are grifting, and then just when you get to the end of it, like they can sense it’s time to change the grift. Like, “Let’s just switch what we’re…” So, she’s just like, “Let’s just take this in a different direction. The fortune telling is not doing it, so let’s go into this kind of apocalypse prophesying.” So, she announced, where and how? Outside of her house? I don’t know. 

Allison: Well, her father-in-law is the town crier; I’m sure he showed up and just started hollering. 

Ann: He could. Yeah. Or maybe her husband had those same vocal cords, and he could do it. And now, she had had a vision that told her one of her hands would lay 14 special eggs and that when the 14th one is laid, that will mark the beginning of the apocalypse. 

Allison: Okay. Great. 

Ann: And right on cue, one of her hands laid an egg, and the egg had written on it, “Crist is Coming.” 

Allison: [laughs] Yes, girl! Oh my god.

Ann: And it’s important that you know that Crist is spelled without the H. So, it says “Crist is Coming.” 

Allison: “Crist is coming.” Mm-hmm. 

Ann: “Crist is coming,” was written on the egg, not with ink, almost as though the egg itself had sort of… Almost like, one might say, perhaps using some sort of vinegar-like substance, someone had sort of etched it in. 

Allison: Did she get one of those little wax crayons that you draw on Easter eggs with before you dye them, and it leaves a little mark? Oh my god! [laughs] 

Ann: No, Allison, this is the Prophet Hen of Leeds. 

Allison: Oh, I’m so sorry for disrespecting the hen. 

Ann: The egg came out like this, it’s the Prophet Hen of Leeds. 

Allison: Right. Right, right, right. 

Ann: And so, she put the Prophet Hen, as you would, on display, charging people money just to look at it, and maybe perhaps witness one of these eggs coming out, because, you know, after there’s number 14, then it will be the end of days. So, you want to keep track of when are they coming up. 

Allison: It wasn’t that it was going to lay 14 eggs at a time, it was “It will eventually lay 14 eggs.”? 

Ann: It will eventually lay 14 profit eggs, in between that, probably normal eggs, but it’s like 14 of these like magical eggs are going to come about, over, one would presume, quite a lengthy period of time. Not all at once. So, she also sold her own version of the Southcott Seal. [Allison laughs] So, Mary Bateman said, “I’m one of the chosen ones and here’s my thing.” It’s like a scroll, it’s like a piece of paper. What is it? It’s a piece of paper, and on it is that the initials, J.C. When she says, “You show it when you get to heaven,” just be like, “It’s the fast pass.”

Allison: “I’m on the list.” [laughs] 

Ann: So, she was selling those as well. Thousands of people came and paid to see the hen and to get one of these papers. Like, it was a successful entrepreneurial task. But at least one person was skeptical. So, this one guy, a doctor, doesn’t really matter that he’s a doctor, but maybe because he’s a doctor, he’s just like, “Well, this can’t be… science.” So, he woke up early and then hid near her house to nab this egg, to see the egg. He deduced that the inscription had been applied with concentrated vinegar, sort of like, acidicly. It’s like, carved into the egg almost. 

So, I just want to tell people: Warning for an unpleasant thing involving chickens. If you want to skip ahead 30 seconds to avoid that, go ahead. So, what happened is that this doctor told the authorities, and the authorities went to Mary’s house, and they caught her re-inserting this egg back into the chicken. 

Allison: Awww. She Mary Toft-ed the chicken. 

Ann: Yeah. So, I don’t think she had written on 14 eggs, I think she just had this one egg, and she would just every couple of days, put it back inside the chicken. [Allison groans] Yeah, I know! The poor chicken. And people were honestly mostly upset about cruelty to chickens. 

Allison: Really? 

Ann: Yeah. 

Allison: Good for them! 

Ann: People were like, “This poor chicken.” But also, the reveal of this hoax, there’s some backlash for Joanna Southcott because Mary had so closely tied herself to being a Southcottian. 

Allison: Joanna’s like, “I had nothing to do with the magical chicken. Please leave— I’d like to remove myself from the narrative.” 

Ann: Exactly. Joanna Southcott stopped giving the seals to her own followers because Mary just kind of ruined that game. But, you know, they revealed that this is— But there’s still people who are like, ”But is it?” There’s still people who want to believe, you know? One of which includes her neighbours, so Mary was able to sell the chicken to her neighbour. And the neighbour was just like, “Oh, my God! Prophet Hen! Now I have it.”

Allison: Magic chicken. 

Ann: But it just laid regular eggs, and so, the neighbour just treated the chicken like any other chicken and then made soup or whatever. And that is the saga of the Prophet Hen of Leeds, which, later on, when this book is written about Mary Bateman in 1811, we should look up the picture of it later. There’s a picture of Mary, and she’s holding the egg, like the egg became an indelible part of her story. It’s the most famous part of her story. So, after all of this, like, you know, thousands of people have come to her house to see the Prophet Hen, et cetera. Her face was now well-known as the… 

Allison: Sure. She’s the chicken lady. 

Ann: Who gives you the fast pass to heaven. So, she’s like, ”Time to maybe leave Leeds. Let’s go to York,” York, coincidentally, a place where a lot of Southcottians lived, and they had their Southcotttian meetups. And so, she went to the meetups to look for, like, a gullible person, and then she saw someone, this elderly widow, she’s like, “Great.” So, then she kind of followed her home to see where she lived and pretended she was new to town. She’s like, “Oh, my God, I’m new to town. I’m a Southcottian. Can I stay with you, please?” And the widow was like, “Okay, you seem cool. I love Southcotts.” 

Allison: “You have the little symbol that shows you’re one of the cool people. You can come to my house.” 

Ann: “Here’s my pass.” And then Mary kept trying to find ways to get the widow to, like, “Could you go buy some meat from the market so we could have food, and just leave me alone in your house for no apparent reason?” 

Allison: “So I can gather up all your belongings.”

Ann: Or even just kind of like, inventory. But the widow wouldn’t do that. Eventually, they were eating food together; it was mutton with gravy, and Mary had made the gravy, and she’s like, “Drink this gravy, old lady.” And the widow’s like, “No, thank you.” 

Allison: “You have your arsenic face on, ma’am. I don’t trust it.” 

Ann: Mary also didn’t drink the gravy; she threw it away. So, presumably, what she was going to do is just kill this old lady, steal all her stuff, and go. But the old lady outsmarted her, whether consciously or not. And then, I don’t know, just a little sojourn to York, and they just went back to some other part of Leeds, not Black Dog Yard, and she pivoted back to medicinal remedies, abortions and stealing people’s furniture. 

For instance, so there’s one family there, the man of the household died, and the widow is left with four children. And she tells the widow, like, “I think your oldest son is going to sell all your furniture. [Allison laughs] So, what you should do is give it to me.” So, like a classic Mary Bateman, you know, furniture stealing. But she’s always looking for a casual grift. Like, I love this one. So, at one point, she was just like in the butcher shop, and she heard somebody come by to be like, “Hey, can I order like a leg of mutton for delivery to such and such an address?” And they’re like, “Yeah, for sure.” So, then she’s like, [mischievous tone] “Hmm, hmm, hmm!” 

Allison: “With arsenic sauce, you say?” 

Ann: No arsenic in this one. She just found the delivery boy, she’s like, “Oh, my God, you’re so late. Let me. Give me that mutton, I’ll take it to her,” and then she took it home and she, like, ate mutton. This would have all worked, she would have gotten away with it, except for the delivery boy was like, “That’s Mary Bateman. She lives down the street.”

Allison: [laughs] “That’s the woman with the Prophet Hen of Leeds.”

Ann: So, they went to her house, and she was cooking the mutton, and they’re like, “God damn it, Mary Bateman.” So, she paid them back, I guess. But I just like, you know, she’s always looking for an opportunity. 

Allison: Was she ever, like, arrested for any of this? Because the fact that it doesn’t seem like she spent a day in jail is incredible. 

Ann: Well, and I think it’s because she’d be like, “Oh, you got me!” And then she pays them back. I guess. No, she’s not arrested for anything. 

Allison: That’s wild. 

Ann: Yeah. And that’s why you always go, like, under 40 shillings or whatever. 

So, a thing that she had been doing throughout, but this becomes more of a thing in this part of her story is, like, it’s a witch thing, I guess, allegedly. So, people would give her money, like a certain amount of paper money, coins, and then she would sew the money into small bags and then give the bags to them and be like, “Okay, put this under your bed, or pin this into your jacket,” or whatever, “And don’t open it until I tell you to.” 

Allison: Because there’s definitely still money in there. [laughs]

Ann: It definitely still feels like it has the weight of coins, which means that it’s still absolutely filled with coins. So, this is a thing that she would do a lot. And then, if people open the bags and they found that there was not money in it, she’d be like, “Well, that’s because you open it too early. It just magically turned into not-money because you open it early, dummy.” So, this is a thing she’s been doing, and this is where her seamstress skills come into play as well; sewing these things into bags. And so, I don’t know, scene setting for, this is a thing she’s been doing this whole time. 

Meanwhile, one of her brothers – remember she had siblings – so one of her brothers came by, he had deserted the Navy, which was a huge deal in this time, because we’re in like 1807, I think. 

Allison: And as all of the Master and Commander girlies know, oceans were battlefields at this time in history. 

Ann: Yeah. No, and this is why, if you left the Navy, if you deserted the Navy, it was the death penalty. 

Allison: Also, it’s got to be really hard to desert the Navy. 

Ann: You’re in the ocean. 

Allison: Where are you going to go? 

Ann: Swim? So, her brother came by, he had deserted the Navy, he came with his wife. And Mary was just like, “How can I make money off this situation? Also, I don’t like having them around.” So, she pulled out a classic Mary Bateman; she presented a letter to the wife saying her father was ill, and so the wife left town. 

Allison: “Your father, the town crier.” [laughs]

Ann: [laughs] So, while the wife was away, she just played on the brother being like, “Oh, you should divorce her. I think she’s been cheating on you,” et cetera, et cetera. But the wife came back, and she’s like, “Euhh, that’s not true.” But when the wife came back, they realized that Mary had stolen and pawned all of the possessions that they had travelled with, like, in their trunks… That’s on you. You know who your sister is! 

Allison: You know her. 

Ann: She stole shoes, age 5. Like, don’t bring things into her house! You know she’s going to pawn them. Anyway. So, things are going downhill with her brother and the wife. Eventually, she goes to the local magistrate, being like, “My brother is a deserter from the Navy,” because then she gets, I think, a reward for that. The brother and the wife flee at this point, and then she wrote a letter to their mother being like, “Oh, my gosh, my brother, your son, deserted the Navy, and I need 10 pounds to set him free. Mom, please send me 10 pounds.” The mother sent the money, of course. So, you know, she did her best to destroy her brother’s life and marriage, but she made some money off of it, and that’s just what she’s going to do. The brother and the wife got away. I feel like, good for them. There’s no arsenic involved. 

Allison: No, they’re good. 

Ann: Yeah. Okay, so then she is approached by a couple, William and Rebecca Perigo. They’re a couple, I think they’re in, like, their fifties or so, no children. Rebecca had been having these chest pains, and she went to her doctor. Here’s what I want to say: Was Mary a poisoner, con artist, stealing people’s possessions? Yes. But the society in which she lived made it really easy to be that. So, the Perigos, they went to the doctor, and the doctor was just like, “Oh, I don’t think this is medical. I think you have a curse. So, you should go see a witch, perhaps the Yorkshire Witch, and she will help you.” So, they did. 

Allison: They got a referral. 

Ann: Yeah, they did go to a doctor first, and the doctor was like, “Looks like a curse to me.” 

Allison: “This is witch business.” 

Ann: Yeah. So, they want to see Mary. And she’s just like, “Oh, yeah. You’ve been put under a spell. So, here’s what we’re going to do. I’m going to talk to Mrs. Blythe, see what she says. Oh, here’s a letter from Mrs. Blythe. It says, give her lots of money, sew money into bags. Mrs. Blythe also wants…” These people, the Perigos, were incredibly susceptible to what Mary Bateman was up to. So, every two weeks, she’s like, “Oh, a new letter from Mrs. Blythe! Oh, yeah, she’s really working on this curse that is on you, but she needs some more dresses, and some silverware, and some red, and a nice new pair of shoes.” [Allison laughs] So, they keep being told to give this stuff for Mrs. Blythe, give it to Mary Bateman to give to Mrs. Blythe. 

Allison: Of course. 

Ann: So, here’s an example. These letters all ended with like, “And then as part of the counter spell, burn this letter, don’t keep this letter.” They kept some of the letters. So, one of the letters says like, “Buy me a small cheese. [both laugh] About six or eight pounds weight.” 

Allison: That’s enormous! 

Ann: “It is to be carried…” 

Allison: That’s so much cheese, Ann! 

Ann: Eight pounds of cheese! Do you think that’s for her to eat? How is she going to pawn it? Do pawn shops take cheese? 

Allison: Probably! I mean, yes. And I’ll tell you how I know is because, famously, in the Great Fire of London, when Samuel Pepys was trying to save all of his most expensive possessions, he took a giant wheel of Parmesan cheese and buried it in his backyard so it wouldn’t burn down in the Great London Fire. So, yes. You could sell cheese. 

Ann: So, it’s just normal to have a wheel of cheese in your house. 

Allison: I don’t think it was normal, but I know of exactly two instances where it happens. [laughs]

Ann: The cheese, the Parmesan cheese, did not melt? I don’t know. 

Allison: Not if he buried it far enough underground before the fire came. 

Ann: I guess, yeah. 

Allison: You just brush the dirt off the rind, and you’re rich in cheese again. 

Ann: So, she’s asking for eight pounds of cheese, and every two weeks, these letters came from “Mrs. Blythe,” demanding more money and goods. So, the letters were delivered to the Perigos, either by Mary’s son, who also, we know later from the trial that is going to happen, he would go pick up things for her, like arsenic from the chemists, or the letters would arrive in the post. So, the Perigos, here’s a list of some things that they gave, that Mrs. Blythe requested and that they gave her: Furniture, clothing, one goose, a tea caddy, a quantity of tea and sugar, two or three hundred eggs, 60 pounds of butter, a new waistcoat, two napkins, half a pound of tea, and a tea canister to put the tea in, and more. More than that. These are the things that stood out to me. 

Allison: So many eggs. 

Ann: What do you do with so many eggs? 300 eggs? What are you doing? 

Allison: That’s so many eggs! Ah! I’m panicked at the thought of having to, like, put that many eggs somewhere. 

Ann: Well, that’s why I think it’s funny that she wants two napkins and 300 eggs. [Allison laughs] Are those equivalent value? I don’t know. Eventually, Mrs. Blythe sent a letter saying she was unable to sleep in her own bed due to the battle she was having with the spirits who were cursing the Perigos

Allison: We’ve all been there. 

Ann: And so, she needed a new bed and bedding. So, the Perigos acquired this for her. And I mean, like, the Perigos are going— Like, they bought the bed, and they’re like, “Oh yeah, can you deliver this bed to this? Mrs. Blythe’s brother is going to bring the boat up the river and pick it up.” And the bed seller is just like, “It’s very unusual to buy a bed for someone so far away.” This is preposterous. And like, you see Mary Bateman just kind of being like, “Oh, could you send me like two dozen eggs?” And then they do. And then like, “Can you send me six dozen eggs?” And then they do like, 300. Like, how much can I ask for? 

Allison: At this point, she’s like, “I wonder how far I could push this before someone stops me.” 

Ann: Yeah. A bed is, like, a really expensive thing in this era and time. So ultimately, I think around the time of the bed, Mary is just like, “This is, like, I’m going to get caught. This has been a fun time, but this is becoming pretty apparent that I am defrauding these people.” So, she’s like, “Time to pull out the little arsenic.” So, she’s like, “Mrs. Blythe said that what we need to do is like, here’s this powder, please mix this into pudding. Eat one of these puddings every day. And then, if it makes you feel sick, that’s good. That’s just, you know, the demons being exorcised. If it makes me feel sick, then mix this powder in with your honey, and just take a teaspoon of the honey. That’s what you should do. Please and thank you.” And if they didn’t consume everything exactly as directed, everyone would die, like, both of them, Mary, Mrs. Blythe, Mrs. Moore, everybody. 

Allison: The chicken! It’s all over. 

Ann: Everybody. So, they started eating the pudding. And at first, like, it’s fine. But it’s like “Eat this pudding every day for six days.” On the sixth day, suddenly, the amount of powder to put in was five to six times more than on previous days. [Allison laughs] What I learned about arsenic is you need just, like, a pea-sized amount to kill somebody. So, I don’t know how much she was putting in this day. 

Allison: Six to eight pounds. 

Ann: “Mix it with your cheese.” There’s so much powder that she couldn’t make pudding out of it. Also, she made a cake also, Rebecca. 

Allison: I wonder if the two to three hundred eggs were for the pudding. 

Ann: I don’t know. So then, they’re like, “Here’s this cake,” and William tried the cake, and he’s like, “This tastes awful. I hope the pudding doesn’t taste that bad.”

Allison: This tastes like arsenic. 

Ann: Interestingly, when you have arsenic, it stops being tasteless and odourless. So, he didn’t eat it because it tasted so bad. But Rebecca was all in; she ate it, she became violently ill, and then she took the honey to help, and that made her even more ill. And Mary had warned them, like, “This might make you sick, but it’s good, that’s you expunging all the curse stuff. So, don’t call a doctor.” So, they did not call a doctor until towards the very end, when it really seemed like she was dying. William called for a surgeon, the doctor didn’t arrive until after Rebecca had already died. But William spoke to the surgeon, and he’s like, “Yeah, these were the symptoms she had, and I had similar symptoms,” and the surgeon is like, “Oh, that’s arsenic poisoning.” Categorically, the exact symptoms of arsenic poisoning. Yeah. The doctor suggested like, “Well, let’s just test.” They took some of this powder, and they gave it to a chicken to see if the chicken would die. The chicken did not die. I feel like the chicken was working for Mary Bateman somehow. Is it the hen from before? Maybe. 

Allison: Are chickens susceptible to arsenic? 

Ann: That could be… That’s what I thought, too, because maybe they’re not. 

Allison: Yeah. Like, I don’t know. I’ve never tried to poison a chicken. So, I am just guessing. 

Ann: I don’t know. But what I will say, and this is a warning… 

Allison: I’m going to Google it while we do this, because I need to know. 

Ann: Okay, but I just want to give everybody a heads-up warning: Skip ahead 30 seconds if you need to, for some things that happen to a cat and a dog. Skip ahead 30 seconds if you don’t want to hear this. But what it was, as you might imagine, Allison, is they fed some of the cooked pudding to a cat and the cat died, and then they fed some of the honey to a dog, and the dog died. And then, this guy… 

Allison: Would you believe chickens are not susceptible to arsenic? [laughs]

Ann: Is that true?! 

Allison: Yeah! 

Ann: What a great loophole for something. 

Allison: I don’t know what, but I’m thrilled that she found this. 

Ann: Well, for this, it would have proved her innocence if only they hadn’t moved on to testing it with other animals. So, they did an autopsy on the dog and found poison in its stomach. So, this doctor guy is just like, “Uhh, seems like these two people have been poisoned, and she died of it.” So, William, still ever-trusting, went to Mary and was like, “Oh, my gosh. Rebecca died. Like, I can’t believe…” 

Allison: [laughs] “Somebody poisoned her with arsenic!” 

Ann: “Will you help me?” There’s another story I didn’t put in here, but there’s like a young servant girl who Mary was helping with screwing down, and then she eventually, I guess, wanted to get rid of her. So, she just anonymously delivered like a fruit cake on this woman’s front porch, and the girl was like, “Oh, my God, that’s great. I’m a poor servant girl. Fruit cake!” And she’s like, “Mmm, this fruitcake smells weird. I’m not going to eat it.” So, then she took the fruitcake to Mary Bateman to be like, “Mary Bateman, someone left me this cake. I think it’s poison.” Mary Bateman’s like, “Yes, I’ll screw down that person. Pay me more money.” [Allison laughs] 

Anyway, so William went to Mary, is like, “Oh, my God, Rebecca died. This guy says it’s poison.” And Mary is like, “Well, she didn’t eat all the honey. She should have eaten all the honey. Did you guys touch those bags of coins sewed into your bed? You must have— This must be her fault somehow.” And Mrs. Blythe continued sending letters to William with new demands, and he kept fulfilling them! So, telling him, like, “Bring one of your wife’s dresses for Mary.” 

Allison: Wasn’t the point of them like, “We’re going to heal your wife,” and now your wife is dead, so what exactly are you getting out of this now? 

Ann: I don’t know. I guess they must have told William, like, you’re cursed. I don’t know. But he’s still doing stuff. The letter said, like, “Give one of your wife’s dresses to Mary.” And then, two weeks later, it’s like “Mary didn’t like that dress. Can you send Mary a different dress? Also, can you send a wagon load of coal, some flour, tea, sugar and eggs? Thank you.” Just like, her grocery shopping list. 

Allison: How can you need more eggs, girl? [Ann laughs] Surely, surely you have enough eggs. 

Ann: Never enough. So, finally, I don’t know what finally cracked for William, but he’s just like, “I’m just going to open these bags of, “coins” in my bed,” and he’s like, “What?! There’s not coins in them?” So, he went to confront Mary. He’s like, “Why aren’t the coins in the bag?” And Mary is like, “Well, you opened them too soon, it broke the magic,” et cetera, et cetera. And then she’s like, “Let’s meet tomorrow by the bridge, and I’ll explain everything. Tomorrow by the bridge. Meet me there. Come alone.” 

Allison: “Way, way, way up on the bridge, right above where the sharp rocks are.” Is that the way this is going?

Ann: “Right by the edge of the bridge.” Anyway, at this point, William, he can’t… You know. God bless William, not a smart person. But in this case, I think other people, maybe the doctor, were like, “Don’t go see her by yourself. Dummy! Absolute idiot.” So, two other men followed him to go meet her, and they watched him meet with her. When she realized that there was witnesses, she pretended to vomit, and she’s like, “Oh, William tried to poison me! Last night, he gave me this bottle and told me to drink it, and I think there’s poison in it,” and it’s, like, the bottle of poison she had brought to kill him with. But she’s like, “He poisoned me!” Anyway, the contents of the bottle were later found to contain a mixture of oatmeal and arsenic. 

So, the magistrate and William went to Mary’s house, and they’re like, “Wait a minute. Why is your house full of all the items?” 

Allison: “Why do you have so many belongings, ma’am?” [laughs] 

Ann: “If you average the amount of belongings she has with the no belongings everybody else has, it’s still too many. Why do you have so many eggs? You have this giant bed. Two barrels. What?” Yeah. So, they recognized things William had got for Mrs. Blythe, were in her house. So, they’re like, “Okay, you have been defrauded.” 

So, at this point, Mary is taken into custody for the first time in her life. She was brought before the Leeds magistrates and charged with fraud initially, like, just for having taken all this stuff from him. Although they were like, “Seems like she’s probably guilty of also murder. So, let’s just keep her and fully investigate.” When I say investigate, like, there’s not a police force, there’s not detectives; it’s like, the magistrates, just casual guys investigating. But I think all these doctors were really interested because they like doing chemistry and autopsies and seeing what poison was in what. So, she was arrested in October 1808, murder charges were laid in January 1809, and then her trial was March 1809. She was charged with murder, murdering Rebecca Perigo. The case hinged on had she actually supplied the poison that had killed them? And did she know that it was poison when she gave it to them? 

Allison: Yes.

Ann: I mean, yeah. That being said, you know, maybe a good lawyer could have tripped somebody up, but she did not have money to hire a lawyer, so she was not represented by anybody. And in the laws of the time, she was not allowed to speak in her own defence. So, just a whole bunch of witnesses came up and just kind of all explaining, like, other people who she had worked with, who she had provided services to, like friends of the Perigos, her messenger person, I think her son testified. 

Allison: “Yeah, I used to buy arsenic for mom all the time.” 

Ann: Well, no. It was a chemist, I think, who said like, “Yeah, her son came in, and he wanted to buy so much arsenic. I was like, why would anyone eat this much arsenic?” And he was like, “To kill rats.” [laughs]

Allison: “So many rats. It’s because of all the eggs. Don’t worry about it.” 

Ann: “Eight pounds of arsenic, please.” So, it was determined during the trial, and you know these chemistry guys were just living for being able to talk about all the chemistry experiments they did. They found arsenic in the pudding powder. So, pudding powders were arsenic. And the honey was a different poison; sublimate of mercury was there. So, it’s kind of like, “Have this arsenic pudding and then wash it down with this mercury honey, and that will cure you.” So, the trial was done in 11 hours, it was like one day of just people… 

Allison: [laughs] Yeah. Eleven straight hours of this is the guiltiest woman you’ve ever seen in your life. 

Ann: Yeah. It was a jury trial, and she was, in fact, found guilty. I think the trial lasted 11 hours, and they found her guilty in, like, five minutes or something. So, the judge sentenced her. Like, the jury decided if she’s guilty or not, and then the judge decides what’s the punishment going to be. And he’s like, “Hanging is going to be what happens to you, and then your body will be given to surgeons for dissection.” 

Allison: Surgeons are like, “Yeeees!” 

Ann: Oh, we’ll talk about what happened to her body. The law at the time mandated the dissection of bodies of executed murderers because doctors and medical schools were always wanting bodies. You know, there’s a million books about this and, like, Frankenstein and stuff. The medical schools needed bodies, and so all the murderers’ bodies would be donated to science. 

Allison: Because there was, like, the normal belief a bit at that time was, like, your body must be whole so that when it actually is day of judgment, you can rise up in your physical body when it’s actually revelation’s time. Like, well, the murderers are going to heaven anyway, so we’ll use them. 

Ann: Yeah. So, it’s like an extra punishment to a person that they would not get into heaven. Like, “Your punishment is you’re going to be executed and then not go to heaven.” But they don’t know she has the fast pass! 

Allison: She’s got two of them. And the egg. 

Ann: The egg! So, this is like, I don’t… I don’t. I feel like there’s a merch idea somewhere in this episode. It might just be a shirt with an egg that says “Crist is Coming.” I don’t know. [Allison chuckles] I don’t know. I have to think about it. 

Allison: I think there’s an arsenic pudding recipe in there somewhere. 

Ann: Or just sort of a thing that’s like “Mary Bateman, witchterpreneur,” you know, just like advertising all of her services… abortions. 

Allison: I think I’d want a shirt with a chicken on it. 

Ann: The chicken has to be… 

Allison: The chicken has to be involved. We’ll brainstorm. 

Ann: We’ll think about it. Listeners, you brainstorm too, please. 

So, anyway, they said like, “You’re going to be executed, and then also, we’re going to send your body to science to be dissected.” But Mary still had a scheme. So, you know, like, in weddings, when they say, “If anyone here has like a reason why these two people can’t be married.” So, I guess in trials at the time, they had like “Mary Bateman, do you have any reason why you shouldn’t be executed?” It’s like a thing, and she’s finally able to talk. And she burst into tears, and she’s like, “I’m pregnant!” 

Allison: Girl… Okay. 

Ann: So, there is a thing that is called “pleading the belly.” This was a law at the time in England, where women in the later stages of pregnancy couldn’t be executed until the child was born. So, you had to be at least 22 weeks pregnant or something. If you were only just pregnant, you could still be executed, but if it’s, like, past the quickening or whatever. It’s like, well, what’s this going to do? They’re still going to execute you after. Yeah, but what often happens… 

Allison: They’re also going to notice that you are not pregnant. 

Ann: Oh, fair. Yes. But let’s say somebody was really pregnant and then they pleaded the belly and then they had a baby. Like, there’s an opportunity that maybe they wouldn’t be executed after the child was born; maybe they would be sent for, Allison, transportation. 

Allison: Yessss! Australia! [laughs]

Ann: Australia! I was excited when I saw that this was an option for her. So, this could be… 

Allison: She would have been amazing in Australia! Can you imagine her as a bushranger? 

Ann: She would have thrived. She would have thrived in Australia! 

Allison: She would have the silliest name. Augh! She would have been amazing. 

Ann: So good. I know. I know! I’m just like, the things we’ve lost that she wasn’t sent in transportation to Australia, because she would have been such an iconic legend there. Queen of the Bushrangers. 

So yeah, you would say like, “Oh, my God, I’m pregnant.” But then it’s like, what do you do? Wait, six months or whatever. No. So, what you do is that verification of pregnancy had to be done by a jury of matrons, which meant that 12 women who were already in the courtroom were just grabbed and forced to inspect her. So, there was a lot of people in the courtroom for this trial because it was like, you know, The Yorkshire Witch. So, when she’s like, “I’m pregnant!” I feel like all the married women in the room were like, “Oh, no,” and they all start trying to leave, and the judge is like, “Lock that door! [Allison laughs] Twelve of you women have to do this.” So, then they got sworn in to be the jury of matrons. They went in with Mary into another room for an exam, and then they came back, and they’re like, “Yeah, no, she’s not pregnant. Or at least if she is, she’s not that far along.” But, you know, it’s worth a try. 

So, she was sent to prison to await her execution. She had at least three children, one of them was her son, who went to buy her arsenic, but she also had, like, an infant-aged child, and that child was allowed to be with her, which is just normal for this time. If a woman’s in jail, she has an infant, you can bring the child into breastfeed or whatever. So, over the week, she’s convicted, sentenced to execution, and then it’s the weekend, and then she’s going to be executed on a Monday sort of thing. So, she’s there for the weekend, and the prison chaplain tried to get her to confess and repent. She never confessed. She never repented. And I respect that in like, you’ll know more about this later, Titus Andronicus type way. “I only wish I could have grifted more people!” [Allison laughs] So, she did write a letter to her husband. She sent along her wedding ring and was like, “Can you give this to our daughter?” 

Allison: “Can you pawn this for a couple of more belongings?” 

Ann: [laughs] So, she admitted in this letter to being guilty of “some frauds,” [Allison laughs] but maintained her innocence in the death of Rebecca Perigo. Like, “Okay, I did some frauds.” 

Allison: “You know, you were there.” 

Ann: “Like when I pawned all of your belongings twice, for instance.” In the biography of her by Summer Strevens, in that part, Summer Strevens put in italics “some frauds” and then was like, “Italics, mine.” Like Summer Strevens hates Mary Bateman so much; it’s palpable in this biography. [Allison laughs] But here’s the thing, here’s the thing. Mary Bateman, unstoppable. Even while in prison, waiting to be executed, she got her fellow prisoners to pay her to tell their fortunes. 

Allison: Yes! What was she going to do with the money? 

Ann: Exactly. And then another prisoner, who was like, sad that her sweetheart didn’t come by, Mary was like, “I can ensure that the sweetheart’s going to come visit you in prison. Just give me some coins. I’ll sew them into this thing, put them in your stays.” So, she took the woman’s coins and claimed to sew them into her stays, and after Mary Bateman was executed, the woman’s like, “Wait, where’s my coins?” 

Allison: [laughs] One last grift for the road. 

Ann: Yeah, she couldn’t stop. 

So, her hanging was public, as they were in this time, but also, she was so notorious at this point. The crowd was estimated, this is a huge estimation, but it’s olden times, and there’s not a lot of records. So, it was anywhere between 5,000 and 20,000 people. 

Allison: That’s so many people! 

Ann: Yeah, because she’s like… Well, partially because many of whom were like, “Oh my God, she’s the Yorkshire Witch. She’s going to, like, fly out of here, the apocalypse is going to happen.” Everyone’s just like, “Something’s going to happen.” Tragically, she did not have any supernatural abilities, and so she died by hanging, March 20, 1809, aged 41. But that’s not the end of the story, Allison. Actually, we went through the story, and she never lost you. I was just thinking. 

Allison: I wobbled for a second, but she never did lose me. The only time I wobbled is when she tried to frame her brother for deserting the Navy… 

Ann: Oh, really?

Allison: … because I support anybody who deserts the Navy. I was like [squirms]. The rest of it, I’m all on it. 

Ann: Yeah. Okay, good. I am too. But I feel like, just the audacity, and it’s like she’s living in this time where she did all this stuff. She could have just been a stay-at-home mom, whatever, just raising her kids, working the factory, and she’s just like, “No.”

Allison: She just loved the grift. 

Ann: She loved it! That’s the thing. If they made a movie of this, maybe they try to make her more sympathetic, like, “Oh, she’s just doing this for her children.” It’s like, no, she was just good at it. She figured out what she could get away with. 

Allison: And she was so obviously having fun while she was doing it. She wasn’t doing it in the most efficient way to make money possible. She’s like, “This is wild. But I think it will be a good time for everybody.” That’s awesome. I love that. 

Ann: Yeah, exactly. And this is like, again, if people listen to the podcast, Scam Goddess, the stories there. They talk about, like, someone who’s just— This guy, this was a few years ago. It’s this teenage boy, and he started representing himself as a doctor. He’s like, “I’m Dr. Love,” and he like took patients and rented office space. And it’s like, “You’re 15 and look like a child.” Like, he’s just having a nice time. It’s not a victimless crime, but I don’t know. 

Allison: But it’s so whimsical that it’s kind of okay. 

Ann: Okay, so here’s what happens with Mary’s body. And we haven’t had a Vulgar History, like, fucked up things happening to somebody’s body in a while, but we do have a history of this happening on the podcast. So, she was taken away. And here’s the thing. What I also want to say about, like, if you listen to this long of the podcast, it’s like, yeah, because this story is great. But everyone is a grifter, and if you’re not a grifter, then you’ve been grifted. 

So, her body is taken away. Put on exhibit! Put on exhibit in the surgeon’s room at the infirmary, where people paid three pence threepence just to see her body. More than 2,500 people paid this fee just to see her body. So, they raised 30 pounds for the infirmary. Summer Strevens was like, “That was the only charitable thing she ever did in her life!” [Allison laughs] Calm down, Summer Strevens. And this is not it. Her body was then dissected, and this became an event people could pay to attend as well, over three days; a three-day Mary Bateman dissection Coachella festival. On day one, medical students could pay to watch the dissection. On day two, other gentlemen, not medical students, could pay to see the body. And on day three, women could buy a ticket to hear a lecture about the body, which I’m like, let them see the body! A lecture? Come on! 

Allison: I know! She would have loved that. Come on! 

Ann: She’s a woman. And so, people are just making money off of her. Although the one person who you might think would be here all about this, Madame Tussaud, not involved in this. Now, this is exactly Madame Tussaud’s shit. Like, she would make the death mask, she would have like, “Oh, here’s the actual egg.” You know, like that’s Madame Tussaud. But at this point, Madame Tussaud’s exhibit was like a touring exhibition. It didn’t have a permanent home. And so, she was currently busy in Dublin and then Belfast, so she never had a Mary Bateman figure. Otherwise, this got big Madame Tussaud energy. 

So, now I’m just going to give a warning for fucked up things happening to a human corpse, so skip ahead 30 seconds, perhaps one minute. So, after the dissection, Mary’s skin was removed and turned into leather. 

Allison: No! No. 

Ann: To make charms that people could buy. 

Allison: Bad.

Ann: Because she’s like a witch, right? And it’s like, “Have this Mary skin leather.” The tip of her tongue was pickled and preserved. Other portions of her skin were used to cover books. Did you hear? You probably did. This was big in the library/archives world a year or two ago. There’s some various archives and museums that have in their possession books with human skin covering, and there’s been sort of a movement in museums and archives and stuff to be more respectful about human remains in general. So, it’s like, what to do about these books with a human skin binding? 

Anyway, do you know who allegedly owned one of the books covered in Mary Bateman leather skin? It’s someone who’s been on this podcast numerous times, who is a man, who I hate.

Allison: Is it Lord Byron? 

Ann: No! 

Allison: Oh! Is it Prinny? 

Ann: It’s Prinny! 

Allison: Noooo! 

Ann: Listeners, if you don’t know, Prinny is King George IV, the husband of Caroline of Brunswick, who I wrote a book about, Caroline, Rebel of the Regency. And Prinny has this remarkable ability to show up in every goddamn story I’ve done this whole season. I was almost at the end of the biography, and I’m just like, “Prinny?!?! What are you doing with this book? Buying a human skin book?” 

Allison: I love you, Ann, because you are doing a Regency season, and every time the regent shows up here, like, “What are you doing here?” [laughs]

Ann: Why is he always here? 

Allison: Why is he here? 

Ann: He’s always… This is the worst. Like, Prinny. Why do you want this human skin book? 

Allison: I don’t know, but I do feel like if the human skin charms were being sold for a sufficient amount of money, Mary probably wouldn’t have been okay with it. Like, “Yeah, you put it in a bag, and then you put it in your in your petticoat. You’re good.”

Ann: Well, that’s the thing. Like, the fact that she died and then so many people have made money off of her since feels like a good sort of way to remember her. That’s how she would want to be remembered by new grifters making money. So, Mary’s skeleton was initially used for anatomy classes at Leeds Medical School, where it remained for 200 years. Interestingly, she had one more rib than most people do at the top, on one side. 

Allison: Interesting. 

Ann: Yeah. So, it was an interesting skeleton, I guess. So, it was at Leeds Medical School, and it remained for 200 years, and it was loaned to the Thackray Medical Museum in Leeds, where it was an exhibit until 2015, when these discussions I just mentioned about like, “Let’s be more respectful of what human remains,” happened, and they were like, “Maybe let’s not have this on display.” But it still has not been buried, the skeleton. 

And this is where I can finally reveal the title of the book. So, two years after her execution, so she was executed in 1809. In 1811, this book came out called The Extraordinary life and character of Mary Bateman, the Yorkshire Witch, traced from the earliest thefts of her infancy through a most awful course of crimes and murders, till her execution at the New Drop near the Castle of York on Monday the twentieth of March 1809.

Allison: [laughs] We just don’t title books like we used to anymore. 

Ann: I love it. I love it. It’s a great title. 

Allison: We got time. We got day of the week. We got geography. It’s all in there. 

Ann: It’s like, do I want to read this book? I don’t know. The title tells you everything. Her thefts from her childhood, awful course of crimes and murders. It’s intriguing, and then ends with her death. So, it came out in 1811. Within two years, it had been published 12 times. People love this book, and on the front of it, the inside, on the frontispiece, there is an engraving, like an image. This is the only image we have vaguely contemporaneously of Mary Bateman, and it’s her sort of sitting at a desk holding up an egg, and the egg says, “Crist is Coming.” 

Allison: Yes! [laughs] I love. 

Ann: She’s the most famous for. So, we get to give her a score in four categories. 

Allison: For the listeners who have never scored a person with me before, I have a special little corner of the scale dedicated to people who I find interesting. They all score exactly the same. Is it a 23? 

Ann: It’s a 23. 

Allison: Yeah. Okay, so we’re not going to do that on purpose. We are going to score based on the merits of the case, but if we end up with a 23, Ann owes me 10 dollars. 

Ann: Yeah, like it’s the Allison Epstein grotto. I forget what I call it on the website. If you go to VulgarHistory.com, and then there’s, like, the scores there, and I call it— Wait, I look at it right now because it is remarkable how the people that we talk about, you and I, keep ending in the same… 

Allison: Every time. Once I got a 24, and that was a big day. 

Ann: It was. Let me see. So, it’s called the Allison Epstein Dirtbag Cul-de-Sac. 

Allison: [laughs] Which is where I belong. 

Ann: I will say that the scores range from 22.5 to 23.5. [laughs]

Allison: [laughs] Yes, that’s my happy zone. 

Ann: Okay, we’re not trying for that, but we’ll see how it goes. So, I mean, I have some idea of Scandaliciousness. How scandalous was Mary Bateman in her time and place? 

Allison: It’s got to be high, no? 

Ann: She was executed for murder. The Prophet Hen of Leeds. 

Allison: The Prophet Hen of Leeds! 

Ann: She’s being fired from jobs at age 12. 

Allison: She took over a doomsday cult and made it about her chicken. 

Ann: [laughs] 20,000 people came to watch her be executed. 

Allison: That’s a 10, right? 

Ann: I think it can’t be more of a 10. And the fact that her whole life was so scandalous that she kept him to leave town, come back to town, go to a new town, leave town. And then, yeah, I think when I’m doing Scandaliciousness, and I’m explaining it to like other guests or whatever, it’s like, did this person murder somebody and get caught? Like, that’s a high score. 

Allison: Yes! Several times! 

Ann: She murdered numerous people. 

Allison: Her biography went into 12 printings. 

Ann: Yeah. So, in terms of her time and era, like, she could not have been more scandalous. And I think part of it, too, and they talk about this, or Summer Stevens does in the biography, about the sort of like, you know, the thing about, like, it’s unnatural for a woman to be a murderer. Sometimes there’s a woman is accused of murder, and it’s like, “Well, what man put her up to this? Because a woman would never do this.” But it was always just like, this was her. That was even more shocking to people because women were thought to be, like, nurturers and whatever. But it’s just like, well, she does have children, and I don’t know how they did or what they did. But she also grifted nonstop from the age of five and murdered countless people. So, it’s like the “unnaturalness” of her being a woman, maybe even more like if a man did this, it’d be like, “Oh, that was a good time,” but that it’s a woman, it’s like, “Oooh!” It’s a little more exciting in some ways. I think a 10 is completely appropriate. Schemieness, I feel, is also really high. Like, when was she ever… She was scheming in her sleep? 

Allison: She was scheming, and she wasn’t just scheming… It worked every time. They were so convoluted. It wasn’t like… These are the kind of schemes that I love, which is not like, “I’m going to go and implement some battle tactics.” It’s like, “I’m going to invent an imaginary friend who places hexes on your imaginary enemies, and she wants you to pay me in eggs.” Like, yes! 

Ann: All of it. Just like, “Oh, and she couldn’t make it because she saw hot air balloons.” [Allison laughs] And then like, even the fact that she’s on death row about to be executed, and she’s just like, “Hmm, want me to tell your fortune?” 

Allison: “One more grift.” 

Ann: She’s never… Like the fact that she claimed to be pregnant. Like, she was never, never not grifting, and like, I can’t think of what would be more of a 10 of Schemieness. 

Allison: Me neither. She was ABG, always be grifting. 

Ann: Yeah, it’s truly incredible. This is where I think the scores may not be so high. 

Allison: I always dwindle after those. 

Ann: Those are big for an Allison Epstein episode. Yeah, because the next one is Significance. This is significance to history in general. I mean, I think, you know, how many families did she bankrupt and ruin? How many people died? But at the same time, it’s like, I’d never heard of her, you’d never heard of her, Summer Strevens had never heard of her. Were I to go to York, Leeds, what was the other place? Thirsk. Like, I don’t think it’s going to be like Mary Bateman’s pub. I don’t think she’s like… 

Allison: Would be amazing if you did. Can you imagine if she had, like, a fried chicken restaurant in York? 

Ann: I would die. I would love it. I was just in England, and I love seeing all the oldey-timey businesses named after oldey-timey people. But there are people who I would have expected to have seen be remembered that weren’t. I feel like, again, I didn’t go to northern England. I don’t know what’s happening in Leeds, but, you know, there’s places like, I went to Bath, where Jane Austen briefly lived, and the whole city is just, like, “Jane Austen lived here once!” And I’m like, “So did Mary Shelley! So did Lola Montez. So did so many people.” 

Allison: Lots of people were here actually.

Ann: Yeah, but the whole city is like, “Only Jane Austen!” All of which to say, I don’t think her Significance score is very high. 

Allison: I don’t think it’s very high, but I also don’t think it’s a 0… 

Ann: Because of the body being in the museum? The skeleton.

Allison: It’s A) the families that she killed, that is significant to both families. And B) for the contributions to medical science. 

Ann: True. 

Allison: She trained doctors for 200 years, so she did something. So, I’m thinking like a 1 or a 2. 

Ann: I think maybe a 2. One for medical science, and one for all the families she destroyed. 

Allison: Okay. [laughs] 

Ann: And then the final category is the Sexism Bonus. How much did living in a patriarchy get in her way? And I don’t think anything got in her way. But I think what got in her way was just, like, the strict class structure. But she figured that out, and she figured out how to still thrive within it. 

Allison: Yeah. Like, I remember when you started doing this podcast, you’re like, “Everybody gets a 5 for Sexism,” and then we started running into people like this woman, and we’re like, “Actually…” Did she experience any sexism at all? I guess, had she been… No, because if she had been born a boy, she still wouldn’t have had, like, job opportunities in northern England.

Ann: She would have just been, like, a farmer who got fired for stealing instead of a lady’s maid who got fired for stealing. I don’t think… 

Allison: Exactly. She probably wouldn’t even have had as many opportunities to grift in the way that she did, because she was kind of trusted as like, an herbalist. 

Ann: Yeah, as a woman, like, matron. Exactly. Like, like Old Nan and the Bog Witch, all the witches at this time were women, like men weren’t… Like, Joanna Soutchott. That was kind of a woman’s position. Is it even a 1? 

Allison: You were saying earlier that, like, she was particularly notorious because she was a woman murderer? 

Ann: That’s true. That could be a 1. I think if a man did all these same things, would he have been sentenced to death? Probably.

Allison: Hanged probably. Hanged, yes. Not turned into jewelry and sold around town. 

Ann: Yeah, fair. I think, yeah, something like part of what is scandalous about it is the womanhood of it and just people feeling like, this is like, a sexy betrayal of gender or something. So, I would say a 1 for Sexism. 

Allison: You know what that gets us, Ann? 

Ann: 23 Allison! 

Allison: [laughs] It sure does. She goes where she belongs. 

Ann: 10, 10, 2, 1 a 23. So, she is up there with people like Catalina de Erauso, 23.5, Lola Montez, 23, the Marquis de Lafayette, 23. 

Allison: For different reasons. [laughs] 

Ann: Empress Elizabeth, 23. Christopher Marlowe, 22.5. This is the Allison Cul-de-Sac. 

Allison: What did Rachel get? 

Ann: Rachel got a 26. 

Allison: That was the one more I broke out of my neighbourhood, that’s right. 

Ann: Yeah, I think she had… Well, she just had a bit more of other things. 

Allison: She was more significant because she had sex with more Napoleons. 

Ann: And she had the big… Wasn’t it, like, 10,000 people came to her funeral and stuff? Although 20,000 people came to watch Mary…

Allison: 20,000 people came to this hanging. 

Ann: I’m just saying. What a time. Thank you so much for joining me for this. I couldn’t… This was such an Allison story, I had to bring you to talk about it. 

Allison: I was in from the moment you teased it for me, and it met and exceeded all my expectations. 

Ann: I know. When you say that, like, the Prophet Hen of Leeds is not even… It’s a high point, but there’s so many others. 

Allison: If you had said her imaginary friend was way late because she saw a hot air balloon, I also would have joined the episode. [laughs] There’s so many hooks. 

Ann: She’s just such a creative little villainess, I love it. I think this would be a great limited series on a streaming service. But you have to make her be a dirtbag. You have to go Peaky Blinders on this. You can’t make it be like, “Oh, she’s only doing this because her family suffered.” It’s like, no. She’s doing this because she’s a sociopath, and I love her. 

Allison: You have to do it like that, or you have to do it, like, the weirdest comedy anybody’s ever seen. 

Ann: Yes! Like a true…  Augh, lots of options. You know what? If you want to license this episode, filmmakers, you know, message me.

Allison: Call us. 

Ann: But yeah, Allison, tell people who may not know, you wrote several books, one of which has been nominated for and/or won various awards. Can you tell people about your work? 

Allison: Yeah, I write historical fiction books. My most recent book is Fagin the Thief, it is also about a dirtbag in roughly the early 1800s, who has a stealing and pawning items problem. So, that’s my genre. It is currently up for an Edgar Award for Best Crime Novel, which I’ll find out if it wins at the end of next month. I appreciate your good thoughts and prayers as I try to be presentable at an award ceremony next month. 

Ann: There’s an actual award ceremony you’re attending? 

Allison: Yes. Where I find out if I win. I didn’t win, listeners, but I’m just delighted to go to an award ceremony. 

Ann: Yeah. Where is it? Is it in Chicago or where? 

Allison: It’s in New York. 

Ann: Oh, my gosh, you’re going to New York to an award ceremony for which you were nominated. Okay! Fancy! That’s so exciting. 

Allison: Am I going to go see the revival of Cats: The Jellicle Ball when I’m there? Absolutely, I am. So, get hype for that. 

Ann: Amazing. But yeah, everybody should read Allison’s book if you haven’t yet, Fagin the Thief. So good! And we’ve mentioned this before, but like, the audiobook: So good! That guy’s voice. Yes. 

Allison: Yeah. And because Anne only buzz-marketed herself maybe once or twice in this episode, Ann wrote a book. It’s called Rebel of the Regency, it’s very good. I’m like, one-third of the way through it and very much enjoying it. 

Ann: Yay! 

Allison: If I was playing your drinking game, I would be dead by now. [laughs] 

Ann: My book, Rebel of the Regency: The Scandalous Saga of Caroline of Brunswick, Britain’s Queen Without A Crown, a woman who had the truly bad luck to marry a man who bought a book covered in the leather of human skin, Prinny, among other odious things he did. Yeah, you can get that. It’s available as a book, as an audiobook, as an eBook. It’s available now in Europe! It took, like, for some reason, a month and a half. But it’s like, North America, it’s in Europe. It’s an audiobook as well with a really lovely-voiced narrator. 

Allison: With a really well-read introduction as well, I believe. 

Ann: Yeah! The introduction is read by someone with a really beautiful Canadian accent that the editor had to be like, “Could you say that again, not with such a strong Canadian accent?” And I’m like, “Isn’t that how that word is said? Oh, it’s not. Okay.” 

Allison: [mimics Canadian accent, emphasis on the O] Sorry. 

Ann: [laughs] Exactly. I recorded my parts while my across the street neighbour was snow blowing. Could not have been more Canadian. 

Allison: [laughs] And then you went to a Tim Hortons and you said, “Can I have 13 Timbits, please?” 

Ann: 13 Timbits, god damn it! Go to RebelOfTheRegency.com to get all the information about that. And Allison, you should plug your Substack as well, because people like dirtbags and you write about them. 

Allison: Yes! I’m on brief hiatus due to the amount of things happening in my life right now. 

Ann: But you have an archive.

Allison: I have years of back issues of “Dirtbags Through the Ages” on Substack, which is people just like Mary Bateman told about with stupid GIFs and bad puns. So, go subscribe there if you liked this episode. 

Ann: Yeah. If you want my notes about Mary Bateman, I’d be happy to forward those to you for a future Dirtbags installment. 

Allison: That’d be awesome, so I can not have to research something new. [laughs] 

Ann: Yeah! A summary of a book I read. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Allison. Again, I couldn’t… I feel like almost every season of this podcast, you’ve come on once or twice. 

Allison: I feel like any time you find a chicken that’s predicting the end of the world, you know who to call and it’s me.

Ann: I know. And I’m so glad to know that and to have that. Oh, and also, people love our banter. And you want to hear the two of us talking with another hilarious person, who is a friend, Lana Wood Johnson. If you join my Patreon, we do approximately once a month a show called Vulgarpiece Theatre, where we talk about a movie or a book for two to three hours and slowly descend into madness, and it’s a nice time. Our most recent episode was about the movie Gothic from 1986. Allison’s making a face. 

Allison: What an episode that was. 

Ann: Yeah, that episode could have involved, like, a book with human skin on it. The movie feels like holding a book made of human skin. 

Allison: Yes, it does. 

Ann: Anyway, it’s a movie about Mary Shelley, the night that she wrote Frankenstein, allegedly, and it’s also a 1980s synthesizer fever dream. In our next episode, we’re going to talk about the book Dracula by Bram Stoker, which I’m excited. 

Allison: Which I reread in preparation for that episode, and I remember how much I love how ridiculous it is. So, get excited for that. 

Ann: So, fantastic. If you join my Patreon, you can hear all that stuff, that’s at Patreon.com/AnnFosterWriter. Anyway, thank you so much, Allison, for taking your customary extremely long time to talk about a really bananas story. I had the best time. 

Allison: My pleasure. 

Ann: Oh, right. And I have to say, because it’s in the episode: Keep your pants on and your tits out, everybody!

Vulgar History is researched, scripted, and hosted by Ann Foster. Editor is Cristina Lumague. Theme music is by the Severn Duo. Regency Era artwork by Karyn Moynihan. Social media videos by Magdalena Denson. Transcripts of this podcast are available at VulgarHistory.com by Aveline Malek. You can get early, ad-free episodes of Vulgar History by becoming a paid member of our Patreon at Patreon.com/AnnFosterWriter. Vulgar History merchandise is available at VulgarHistory.com/Store for Americans and for everyone else at VulgarHistory.Redbubble.com. Follow us on social media @VulgarHistoryPod. Get in touch with me via email at VulgarHistoryPod@gmail.com.

References:

We’re joined by award-winning author Allison Epstein to cover Mary’s lifetime of audacious cons, and how the law finally caught up with her.

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